Britain vs France, who would win in a war?

Discussion in 'Europe' started by Falcon, Mar 6, 2016.

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  1. Falcon

    Falcon Major Staff Member Social Media Team

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    I was inspired by @Patriot1776 thread on China vs Japan so I figured that I should open another interesting one. France and Britain have been historical rivals for centuries, for the past century their relations have been excellent and both countries are allies but what if they weren't? What if an event between both nations occurred that caused the out break of a war? Which nation would come out on top?

    My money's on France, they have more independent experience whereas the British mainly participate in only US led missions. France has an excellent local defense industry that is capable of meeting all of France's needs whereas the British mainly participate in joint military projects with the US or other EU nations. France and Britain are equally capable when it comes to hardware.


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  2. Atilla

    Atilla Major

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    You need a scenario. We can say that a highly nationalist Britain wants to take over part of Northern France that used to be under British control centuries ago.

    I think either side of attacked on their land can easily defend themselves. Both sides could fight over distant island territories and Gibraltar. France would win those because Britain decomissioned it's last carrier in 2014 and is waiting for new ones to be built.
     
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  3. Technofox

    Technofox That Norwegian girl Staff Member Ret. Military Developer

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    I doubt this would be a land battle, mostly naval in my guess, so I'll look there.

    ...

    Who's the attacking power and who's defending? Being an Island nation, Britain would have resupply problems that France doesn't, especially if France could inact a blockade of the British Isle. This is where PA2 Charles De Gaulle comes in handy:

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    It's battle ready while Britain's Queen Elizabeth class is neither complete nor armed... it's F-35s wont be ready for a few years leaving the British with a carrier, but nothing to put on it.

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    On the other hand, Britain's submarines have an edge over Frances older designs, especially in the SSN category with their Astute class:

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    France's current SSN is the 1980s era Rubis class, which is to be replaced by the Barracuda class, that is not yet in construction:

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    Britain also has a larger number of modern destroyers versus France, these being 6 Type 045:

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    Compared to France's two Horizon Class ships:

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    Both are well armed. France has more destroyers overall, but many belong to older classes.

    I favor Frances modern La Fayette class frigates over Britain's numerous, but older Type 23s:

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    While the British will have the F-35B in the coming years, they don't have them right now. France on the other hand does have the very deadly Rafale M to man its carrier:

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    Overall I like France in this fight. While Britain is modernizing with the F-35B, Queen Elizabeth class carrier and Type 026 Global Combat Ship:

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    Right now France is better prepared and armed.
     
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  4. Falcon

    Falcon Major Staff Member Social Media Team

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    If the war is fought in the North I think Britain would win on the seas because they have more assets in that area whereas France also has it Mediterranean Fleet. The French would need to draw British ships else where perhaps to Gibraltar by launching an amphibious assault on it. The French could potentially bring the Spanish into the war by using them to get Gibraltar thus brining in a powerful naval power onto their side of the war.
     
  5. Technofox

    Technofox That Norwegian girl Staff Member Ret. Military Developer

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    Oh, I like this idea! Let France soften up the British in the North, and when they're at their weakest...

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    Return of the raiders!!!

    ...

    What about their air-assets? Neither country has heavy bombers anymore, but both have potent strike aircraft in the form of the Rafale:
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    And Mirage 2000 for France:
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    Against the Typhoon:
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    Tornado:
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    And soon the F-35B of Britain:
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    Both operate a number of MQ-9 Reapers:
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    :confused:It's a really close fight. I don't even know what could be the deciding factor in this fight. They've both got modern equipment, great training, combat experience and lots of money to support a protracted war.
     
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  6. Pathfinder

    Pathfinder Lieutenant Colonel

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    This one is really close. @Falcon why did you have to pick a hard one? |Hungover|

    I like @Atilla's idea of adding context to this discussion. Let say the war was to happen today over islands in the Caribbean then France would win, if the war was to be fought over Gibraltar for whatever reason then France would win, if the war was to be fought in the English Channel then either side could win but I would lean more towards Britain because of geographic proximity in relation to where their forces are stationed. Neither country could invade the others mainland so that scenario is off the table unless France got the vikings to invade Britania. :O---:
     
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  7. Falcon

    Falcon Major Staff Member Social Media Team

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    Both could win, it all depends on the scenario.
     
  8. Vergennes

    Vergennes Captain Staff Member Ret. Military International Mod

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    Very unlikely.
    -
    France and Britain do not have any territorial disputes nor nationalistic claims. The two nations in fact are developing their capabilities since the signature of the Lancaster House treaties. We are co developing weapons,working on complex weapons and we are even developing a joint expeditionary force !
    Maybe such a scenario would be a little bit more credible if it was Spain vs Britain.

    The Charles de Gaulle isn't the PA2,the PA2 was somewhat a Queen Helizabeth CATOBAR aircraft carrier. It was scrapped due to economic reasons,but the project might go through with the next government why not...


    pa2.jpg

    The Rubis might be old but proven to be deadly during joint exercises with foreign navies such as the US navy. During an exercise it was able to penetrate an US carrier group and sink its escort and the aircraft carrier. It again proven to be deadly against Portuguese type214 submarines and even Ula Norwegian submarines. (Duration of the exercise forced the Norwegians to regularly recharge their batteries in which the source of acoustic indiscretions have benefited the Casabianca.
    -
    Many units of the Barracuda are being built,the first sea trials will be conducted this year and the first unit will be delivered in ~2017. (The programme was always delayed,not because of technical problems,but economic reasons as always.)

    The Fremm + the FTIs will replace the older frigates.
    The Lafayettes will get an upgrade and this will include a sonar. Interesting.
     
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  9. Technofox

    Technofox That Norwegian girl Staff Member Ret. Military Developer

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    :eek:Well serves me right for not bothering with elementary research first:D. Hope it does go through, though. Cooperation between Britain and France is at an all-time high in the defense realm - would love to see it flying the blue, white and red... and flying a few Rafale Ms:O---:.

    Sure, I didn't mean to disparage the Rubis class boats, but I look at them the same way I look at the Improved LA Class. An older, serviceable design that more than deadly;

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    But they lag more modern designs like the Virginia Class:

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    Looking at boat-against-boat, I can't take Rubis:

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    Over Astute:

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    Astute's just more modern, same dynamic as Virginia versus LA. I assume the quality of each sides Naval personal is equal, but as with anything in warfare, it's not what you have, but how you use it that matters more.

    Who'd use it better?

    Yeah, my bad again:D.

    Didn't even notice the photos of the construction (Suffren?)

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    ...

    Hm, I made my comment on a Monday at 5pm... so I wasn't tired - or drinking. Well now I feel dumb|Cat|.
     
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  10. YarS

    YarS Lieutenant Colonel

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    I can bet on the France. They have a tactical nukes, and Britain - no.
    And now a song about etheral friendship of French and Brittes. "Fourteen French sailors".
     
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