India aims to supply BrahMos cruise missiles to Vietnam

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  1. AMDR

    AMDR Captain Staff Member Administrator

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    India aims to supply BrahMos cruise missiles to Vietnam

    Rahul Bedi, New Delhi - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
    01 June 2016


    India plans to provide Vietnam with varied defence equipment, including BrahMos cruise missiles, in a bid to counter Chinese armament companies equipping several militaries in South Asia and the Indian Ocean region, according to Indian defence industry officials.

    To further this offer and strengthen bilateral strategic ties, Indian Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar is travelling to Hanoi in early June accompanied by a 15-20 member team comprising private and public sector defence manufacturers.

    "The Indian defence delegation to Vietnam will further the joint development and production of a range of military equipment such as small arms, missile and naval systems as well as assorted ammunition," an industry official told IHS Jane's .

    More here: http://www.janes.com/article/60876/india-aims-to-supply-brahmos-cruise-missiles-to-vietnam
     
  2. Bundeswehr

    Bundeswehr Captain

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    not shocking India has been trying to improve defence relations over the last couple years to counter China, especially with the recent South China Sea Dispute
     
  3. Pathfinder

    Pathfinder Lieutenant Colonel

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    China keeps supporting Maoist rebels in India, now the Indians are getting some pay back.

    Vietnam is an important country to watch in the next 10 years. Their economy will do very well as China's manufacturing costs increase, Vietnam is a good location to move factories to. They still have low labor costs compared to China. As Vietnam becomes more and more important to India, the U.S, and Japan it will certainly rise. These countries need a powerful Vietnam to help counter balance China. This Indian deal along with the US lifting the arms embargo on Vietnam are very significant. I would like to see if Vietnam continues to buy equipment from Russia.
     
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  4. Bundeswehr

    Bundeswehr Captain

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    Vietnam has cut down on the procurements from Russia, though they are still buying stuff. I have read a defense update saying they were interested in buying the JAS-39 or the Dassault Rafale. I know they acquired the French CAESAR SPH over the 2S19 Msta.
     
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  5. surya kiran

    surya kiran 2nd Lieutenant

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    India cannot sell the BrahMos without approval from Russia. Its a JV between the 2 countries.
     
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  6. Technofox

    Technofox That Norwegian girl Staff Member Ret. Military Developer

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    Besides Vietnam, what other friendly countries in Asia (not including Middle Eastern nations like Oman, which like the other GCC nations will buy just about anything they can afford without a second thought) would be interested in Brahmos - that both India and Russia would consent to?

    I could see interest from the Philippines for coastal launcher, but that of course invites angst from China which India doesn't need more of and Russia, isolated from Europe and forever having poor relations with the US, can't handle more of.

    [​IMG]

    Are there other nations beyond Vietnam that both India and Russia would have no concerns about selling Brahmos to? I could come up with Malaysia which is reportedly interested in arming their Kedah class OPVs with Brahmos:

    [​IMG]

    But that's got to be a misprint. Hard to image a small surface ship like Kedah could be armed with a launcher of this size.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Doesn't seem to be room on those ships. But they're also interested in an air-launcher version too.

    Beyond Vietnam and perhaps Malaysia, is there any other nation in Asia?
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2016
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  7. Falcon

    Falcon Major Staff Member Social Media Team

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    Iran. India has relatively good relations with Iran.
     
  8. Technofox

    Technofox That Norwegian girl Staff Member Ret. Military Developer

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    Does Russia though?. I know, I know, there's a newly found bonhomie between the two and Russia final got around to selling Iran S-300:

    [​IMG]

    But in the last few decades there was a lot of animosity and distrust between the two as well. Ironically the US played a role in both their newfound friendship and history of leeriness towards one another. Russia going along with sanctions put on Iran by the US sparked distrust and now with the nuclear deal in the books, an effort lead by the US and supported by axillary players, the two can finally resume a meaningful partnership.

    But like the US relationship with Vietnam or in a more extreme example, Cuba, there's still historical differences to work though. And this isn't even to mention the history Iran and Russia shared during the Cold War as Russia looked to expand its presence further south.

    But today Iran and Russia have some similarities to go along with their differences, mainly an even greater distrust of the US then of each other and with India's support, I suppose it's possible.

    Russia may also be more interested in selling a wholly domestic alternative like P-800:

    [​IMG]

    From which Brahmos was developed.
     
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  9. Blue Marlin

    Blue Marlin 2nd Lieutenant

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    what other options do they have that western suppliers can offer similar to the brahmos? the harpoon does not have the range or the speed of the brahmos . the next gen version will have arange of 260 km but the warhead weight is reduced to 125 kg. that wont do much to chinese frigates probably just disable them. and what do you think they will do in responce. the vietnamese have a gun but can they afford to use it?
    [​IMG]
    what about european missiles well we have a few here.

    theres the french exocet
    [​IMG]

    swedish rbs-15
    [​IMG]

    norwegian naval strike missile (nsm)
    [​IMG]
    firstly the nsm is way to small to replace the brahmos, its specs are at 185km range and the warhead is 125kg's

    the exocet not far behind at 185km and 165 kg for range and payload respectivley

    the rbs-15 better than the exocet at 250km and 200kg for range and payload respectivly

    or they can wait for the perseus missile which 0.2 mach faster than the brahmos and just on the mtcr range limit (300km) and with a 200kg payload. but will we (and the french) sell it to them?

    even their subs kilo subs are armed with supersonic klub heavy asm's

    russains missiles are very crude but very dangerous. they will easily sink a 4000-5000 tonne frigate no problem whilst western asm cant, they will just disable them.

    as for politics well they are not on the usa's good books just yet. they have not even tasted western kit yet.
     
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  10. Technofox

    Technofox That Norwegian girl Staff Member Ret. Military Developer

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    None. Western designers favor adaptability and intelligence over speed. But this is more about diplomacy then capability. Because it's a JV, two nations need to sign off on the sale of Brahmos and that leads to a diplomatic tangle that's hard to overcome.

    While it hasn't shown an interest, and rightly so as it's developing its own alternative - XASM-3

    [​IMG]

    If Japan wanted to buy Brahmos it would have India's backing. India and Japan have strong all-aspect relations (diplomatically, economically and militarily), but because Brahmos needs Russian approval too, and Russia, while having economic and diplomatic ties with Japan, and fairly strong ones too (despite Japan's reluctant sanctions to placate the US post-Crimea), Russia is too weary of the US Military's influence over Japan to want to offer such a weapon to an Indian friend.

    In East Asia there are only a handful of nations that both India and Russia support and would offer arms to. Malaysia, Vietnam, perhaps Myanmar - though this is also a sensitive point for China, as is the Phillipines (and thus an unrealistic option as neither Russia nor India want to further isolate or annoy China) and this is what makes Brahmos a hard-sell in the region.

    Capability wise it's a potent, If not typical Russian heavy AShM, but diplomacy, and not capability matter a whole lot more in arms sales. Just look at Pakistan's forever ongoing F-16 saga with the US for proof of that.

    Having gone over the sales aspect from a diplomatic angle, I'll do one on the capabilities side too.

    There are only a few alternatives for a nation like Vietnam, and none come from western nations. The USN had a few supersonic AShM programs in the works - the LRASM-B and RATTLRS:

    [​IMG]

    Future designs would include hypersonic munitions based around the X-51 Waverider type design:

    [​IMG]

    LRASM-B and RATTLRS never panned out and future hypersonic weapons are still in development; neither is likely to be sold aboard anyway.

    As far as western designs are concerned, I agree with you, there's nothing to be had. The only alternatives to Brahmos are heavy Russian AShMs like P-800:

    [​IMG]

    Which is sellable to any nation that would be given clearance to buy Brahmos and a few more like Syria as the missile isn't a JV and doesn't need permission from other then Russia.

    The other alternatives are Chinese heavy AShMs, but those wouldn't be sold to Vietnam or Malaysia as Brahmos would. Indonesia might benefit though, they have a positive defense procurement relationship with China:

    [​IMG]

    Both Japan with its XASM-3, and restrictive export laws are a long-shot and Taiwan's HF-III is largely an unknown commodity:

    [​IMG]

    Brahmos fulfills a gap only Russian options can, being newer and having capabilities the P-800 or older designs like P-700 don't, I'd say it's the best option in its class:

    [​IMG]

    I'd posit that it's best to supplement heavy AShMs with an Exocet or NSM class weapon though as Brahmos class missiles tend to lack range, maneuverability and are costly which limits their tactical effectiveness, especially when compared to missiles like the American LRASM which can, with a few tweaks, have a range of nearly 1000km:

    [​IMG]

    And until Brahmos-M comes along, it needs a mass air-launcher companion or compliment too:

    [​IMG]

    For India this is the American Harpoon used by naval strike aircraft and MPAs like P-8I. For Vietnam this would be the KH-35.
     
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