K9, Caesar, M109G, and PZH-2000 Compete in Norwegian SPA Tender

Discussion in 'Land' started by Pathfinder, Feb 5, 2016.

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  1. Pathfinder

    Pathfinder Lieutenant Colonel

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    Norwegian SPA Tender

    Norway currently operates 14 ageing M109A3GN tracked SPAs, which are in need of replacement by 2020 at the latest. According to the DAM, Norway is planning to buy between 18 and 24 new SPAs to replace them, although an overall budget has yet to be assigned by the Norwegian Ministry of Defence (MoD).

    The contenders to replace the M109A3GNs are the tracked Samsung Techwin K9 Thunder, the wheeled Nexter Systems Caesar, the tracked Krauss-Maffei Wegmann (KMW) Panzerhaubitze 2000 (PzH 2000), and a modernised M109 offered by RUAG.

    http://www.janes.com/article/57738/norway-downselects-artillery-contenders




     
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  2. Technofox

    Technofox That Norwegian girl Staff Member Ret. Military Developer

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    A bid for Archer was cancelled in 2013, though I'd like to have seen the system further developed by Sweden and Norway:

    [​IMG]

    Given we already use the M109, and upgrade makes sense.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    K9 is virtually the same as modernized M109s, so I don't know what it offers that upgraded M109s wouldn't, other than more cost.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2016
  3. Falcon

    Falcon Major Staff Member Social Media Team

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    Caesar is not good for Norway because tracked vehicles are better in the snow, K9 and PZH-200 are fine but the M109G is the logical solution. The old ones can be kept for spare parts.

    Does the M109G have the same range as the others? I don't think the M109G has 40km range.
     
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  4. Technofox

    Technofox That Norwegian girl Staff Member Ret. Military Developer

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    I don't think Caesar would be a bad choice. Wheel with chains or variable pressures can travers snow rather well, like with the Archer:

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Falcon

    Falcon Major Staff Member Social Media Team

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    Winner in Blue

    Range:
    -M109A7 = 22km (standard projectile) & 30km (Rocket Assisted Projectile)
    -Caesar = Up to 40km range
    -K9 Thunder = Up to 40 km range
    -PZH 2000 = Up to 40km

    Rate of Fire:
    -M109A7 = 1 round per minute sustained & 4 rounds per minute maximum
    -Caesar = 6-8 rounds per minute sustained & 3 rounds in 15 seconds rapid fire
    -K9 Thunder = 6-8 rounds per minute for 3 minutes & 3 rounds in 15 seconds & 2-3 rounds a minute for 1 hour continuous firing
    -PZH 2000 = fire of 3 rounds in under 10 seconds and loading of 60 shells by two operators within 12 minutes, including the collation of ammunition data. The firing rate of the PzH 2000 was 12 rounds in 59.74 seconds, and 20 rounds in one minute 47 seconds

    Operational Range:

    -M109A7 = 322 km
    -Caesar = 600 km
    -K9 Thunder = 480 km
    -PZH 2000 = 420 km

    Good luck Paladin!!! $%$%
     
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  6. Cossack25A1

    Cossack25A1 1st Lieutenant

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    Is such SPH like in the picture suitable for jungle terrain as well as swampy terrain?
     
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  7. Atilla

    Atilla Major

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    Indonesia is using it and it only weighs 17 tons but the K9 Thunder weighs 47 tons. The caesar is better for transportation between islands on standard civilian ferries and can cross I think many more bridges than the other Armoured Howitzers. I heard that tracked is better in mud but maybe a light tracked vehicle.

    The K9 Thunder has an automatic loading a refueling vehicle:

    6CM6giS.jpg

    K9_howitzer_21106Z.jpg


    The Turkish Military is using it for its Licensed Built T-155 Howitzers

    8p8aD.jpg

    Loading vehcile in operation!!


     
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  8. Technofox

    Technofox That Norwegian girl Staff Member Ret. Military Developer

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    Maybe with variable pressure tires, but given that swamps are often accompanied by mud, probably not as well. Tracked vehicles tend to fair better in adverse terrain conditions then do wheels.

    Wheeled artillery, like this TATA 155 fair better on solid and hard ground, where their wheels are also quieter then tracks:

    [​IMG]

    Then again, even tracked vehciles would have a hard time in swampy, wet or muddy conditions.

    [​IMG]

    In general wheels are better on solid ground unless you have chains for snow or variable pressures to account for uneven terrain.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2016
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  9. Falcon

    Falcon Major Staff Member Social Media Team

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    The Caesar costs about 5.5 million each

    https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htart/20120507.aspx

    PZH 2000 costs about 6 million each

    http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product237.html

    K9 costs about 2.5 million each

    http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product1279.html

    Couldn't find the cost for the M109 it isn't very expensive I think it is around the same cost as the K9. Countries with lower military budgets like Egypt have them.

    I would go with either the M109 or K9 because oil prices are low right now. You also have better armor protection and better mobility in the snow.
     
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  10. Falcon

    Falcon Major Staff Member Social Media Team

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    The Swedes just put the Archer in service. The article also says that Norway had originally ordered some put then pulled out of it due to delays. This tells me that Norway was already interested in a Wheeled 155mm Howitzers so there is no good reason to think that they have an allergy to wheeled vehicles. The Archer passed mobility tests before and was selected by Norway so wheeled artillery is not a problem.

    http://www.janes.com/article/57781/archer-spa-enters-swedish-army-service
     
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