Russia in talks with India to sell frigates

Discussion in 'Central & South Asia' started by Pathfinder, Mar 16, 2016.

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  1. Pathfinder

    Pathfinder Lieutenant Colonel

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    Russia in talks with India to sell three Project 11356 frigates

    "We’re holding talks so far and working under a state contract. But such negotiations are under way," Vice-President of the United Shipbuilding Corporation for Military Ship Construction says

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    KALININGRAD, March 11. /TASS/. Russia is holding talks with India to sell three Project 11356 frigates earlier destined for the Russian Black Sea Fleet, Vice-President of the United Shipbuilding Corporation for Military Ship Construction Igor Ponomaryov told TASS on Friday.

    "So far, we are fulfilling the works under state defense order and building these ships. At the same time, we’re holding talks on the possibility of selling these frigates to the Indian side," the vice-president said after the ceremony of hoisting the St. Andrew naval flag on the Project 11356 lead frigate, the Admiral Grigorovich.

    When asked by TASS about whether a decision had been made on selling the frigates, Ponomaryov said: "This has not been decided."

    "We’re holding talks so far and working under a state contract. But such negotiations are under way," he said.

    According to the corporation’s vice-president, the engines for these warships "have been fully paid for by the Ukrainian side. They are staying in Ukraine and therefore we’ll be resolving the issue related to these engines."

    A total of six Project 11356 frigates were planned to be built for the Russian Black Sea Fleet. The first frigate has already become operational in the Russian Navy and another two will join it by May and in August, Ponomaryov said earlier on Friday.

    These warships are equipped with the Ukrainian-made engines, which has caused uncertainty with the construction of the other three frigates of this series. The United Shipbuilding Corporation said last year that these warships would be built but would be equipped with domestic engines.

    India operates six Talwar-class frigates, which are the Project 11356 predecessors developed for exports. The Indian warships entered service in 2003-2004 and 2012-2013.

    More:
    http://tass.ru/en/defense/861603
     
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  2. T-123456

    T-123456 Captain Staff Member International Mod

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    I dont get India,when you have a chance of buying from Europe or US,why buy Russian?
     
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  3. Pathfinder

    Pathfinder Lieutenant Colonel

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    The bigger question is why are they not building their own? A country with over 1 billion people isn't building its own frigate? They want to compete with China? I don't understand it, everyone here knows that the Indians are super smart.
     
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  4. T-123456

    T-123456 Captain Staff Member International Mod

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    I heard or read somewhere that in India,private companies dont get defence orders from the Armed Forces,or are not allowed to produce military equipment.
    This means that we need Indian members to confirm or deny this.
     
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  5. Pathfinder

    Pathfinder Lieutenant Colonel

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    Hmm, its all state run?
     
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  6. T-123456

    T-123456 Captain Staff Member International Mod

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    I guess.
     
  7. Gessler

    Gessler 1st Lieutenant Staff Member International Mod

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    We do, actually. Infact most of the frigates in service right now were built here. Currently there are;

    3 x Project-17 Shivalik-class FFG (built at Mazagon Dock Ltd. (MDL), Mumbai)
    [​IMG]
    (on a visit to Australia)

    3 x Project-16A Brahmaputra-class FFG (built at Garden Reach Shipbuilders & Engineers (GRSE), Kolkata)
    [​IMG]

    2 x Project-16 Godavari-class FFG (built at GRSE, Kolkata)
    [​IMG]

    In addition, we currently got 6 x Talwar-class (Project 11356 Krivak-II/III) FFGs from Russia
    [​IMG]

    So of the 14 guided missile frigates currently serving, 8 are Indian and 6 Russian.

    Why we buy from abroad? Well, for starters, as @T-123456 said, most of the current state-run shipyards are packed to the brim with orders for all kinds of vessels ranging from carriers, DDGs, FFGs, ASW corvettes, Subs and smaller vessels. While large private sector shipyards do exist, till recently they were not allowed to build warships, only civilian vessels.

    But now the trend is changing and although they started getting orders for naval Offshore Patrol Vessels (OPVs), Private yards are now in the fray for getting some major orders for bigger ships like LHDs.

    So I guess that pretty much sums up why we buy ships from abroad - we need the vessels in numbers that the local shipyards alone cannot fulfill given current restrictions.

    Future orders/currently under construction surface ships in local state-run shipyards include;

    1 x Project-71 Vikrant-class STOBAR carrier - Cochin Shipyard Ltd. (CSL), Kochi
    [​IMG]

    1 x Project-15A Kolkata-class DDG (2 already delivered) - MDL, Mumbai
    [​IMG]

    4 x Project-15B Visakhapatnam-class DDG - MDL, Mumbai
    [​IMG]

    7 x Project-17A FFGs - MDL, Mumbai and GRSE, Kolkata (they say the number maybe increased to 9)
    [​IMG]

    2 x Project-28 Kamorta-class ASW corvettes (2 already delivered) - GRSE, Kolkata
    [​IMG]

    In planning stages are also a bigger CATOBAR nuclear carrier with EMALS (for which discussions with US are ongoing at the moment), upto 4 LHDs, a new generation of destroyers called Project-18 in very early stages, a follow on order of upto 8 more or so ASW corvettes.

    There are about a dozen or so other orders for well over 30-35 other smaller ships including OPVs, FACs, etc. that I can't recall at the moment. So yeah the state-run yards are choking and the Govt. has realized that unless private yards step in big time, further orders cannot be met. For the meantime though, it could translate into another 3 or 4 frigates purchased from Russia.
     
  8. Gessler

    Gessler 1st Lieutenant Staff Member International Mod

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    Well, the factors may include;

    1) Price - more often than not, Western ships are a lot more costly than Russian ones in the same category.

    2) Logistics & Weapons - our current ship-based anti-shipping capability is centered around the BrahMos Block-I ASCM, and many Western ships are unable to carry that missile, unless a lot of money is poured down into customization. The radars and guidance systems also may not be able to work in conjunction with Russian/Indian missile systems of any kind - unless again we modify everything.

    3) Autonomy - I doubt it would be OK with Western Govt.s' if we put any kind of nuclear-capable LACMs on ships bought from West. With Russian ships, most such restrictions are relaxed once sale has taken place.
     
  9. Pathfinder

    Pathfinder Lieutenant Colonel

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    Thanks for the excellent posts. We learned a lot about the Indian Navy and the capability of India's ship yards with regards to the product of warships.

    Which Indian companies generally deal with designing the sub systems of these ships? Radars, Combat Management Systems etc.
     
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  10. Gessler

    Gessler 1st Lieutenant Staff Member International Mod

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    DRDO and it's various affiliated labs are the principle agencies that engage in R&D regarding such systems. Most of time, production of the components is outsourced to either other state-run agencies, or increasingly private companies. For example if DRDO makes a ground-based AESA surveillance radar, the production of the Transmit/Receive Modules (TRMs) is outsourced to private-sector agencies like Astra Microwave Ptd. Ltd.

    In addition, there is the Bharat Electronics Ltd. (BEL) which mainly looks over design & development of radars, sonars, EW systems and the like. Recently, the D&D for onboard CMS suites has been shouldered by the WESEE (Weapons & Elecronic Systems Engineering Establishment), which is directly overseen by the Indian Navy.

    --

    But currently, the main AESA radar used in IN today and for the foreseeable future is the Israeli Elta EL/M-2248 MFSTAR.
     
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