Was replacing the M-14 a Mistake?

Discussion in 'U.S. Army' started by Pathfinder, Mar 7, 2016.

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  1. Pathfinder

    Pathfinder Lieutenant Colonel

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    This discussion is comparing M-14 type rifles used by the military against AR or M-16 type rifles used by the military and whether or not the M-14 should have been replaced. Both rifles continue serving the armed forces, the AR as the military's primary infantry weapon of choice and the M-14 mainly as a DMR. The US Military began to bring the M-14 back into service as the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq raged on. Troops needed weapons that could hit targets both harder and farther down range, AR's could not achieve this goal but the M-14 could. So after decades of practically sitting in storage the M-14 is back on the scene.

    What do you all think? Was replacing the M-14 with the M-16 a good idea?

    Range: M-14 Wins

    Power: M-14 Wins

    Reliability: M-14 Wins (Early M-16 rifles were unreliable)

    Weight: M-16 Wins

    Ergonomics: M-16 Wins (Recent M-14 Modifications have made it more ergonomic)

    An excellent video comparing the M-14, M-16 and AK-47



    Old School M-14

    M14_rifle_-_USA_-_7,62x51mm_-_Armémuseum.jpg

    SOCOM M-14

    AA9625_1200x3061.png

    M-14 EBR (Enhanced Battle Rifle)
    PEO_M14_EBR.jpg
     
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  2. Technofox

    Technofox That Norwegian girl Staff Member Ret. Military Developer

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    I love the M-14, it has a certain charm that I can't quite put my finger on, but I do think replacing it was the right decision.

    To me, the M-14 is like our HK417:

    [​IMG]

    It best as a DMR, not for equipping the whole military. The gun and bullet are too heavy, same with the recoil, versus its small counterparts like the M4 or HK416. At 44 inches in length - the same length as an SR-25:

    [​IMG]

    It's a bit too cumbersome for use in urban scenarios like room-to-room sweeps or maneuvering in built-up areas like alleys. At 40 inches, even the M-16 is a problem in these scenarios.

    However, more modern versions are smaller, like the M-14 EBR, which is 35 inches in length:

    [​IMG]

    Military-wide, and especially the Army and Marines? Yes, it was a good idea to replace the M-14 in my opinion. But for services that don't see as much frontline action, it's a wonderful weapon to use. From what I know, the USN still uses the M-14, submarine crews are issued one for counter-shark duty during swims.

    It's good for counter-mine operations too.

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Falcon

    Falcon Lieutenant Colonel Staff Member Social Media Team

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    Your one of those guys I see. :D

    The M-14 has a lot of good features ranging from reliability to sheer stopping power which is useful in Urban Combat because you can take someone out who is hiding behind a brick wall. Its also better for shooting through the woods if there is thick brush. In Vietnam the 5.56 often lost much of it power and accuracy in the jungle because the vegetation was so thick.

    Today a lot of the combat takes place in urban areas, look at the wars in the middle east. In East Asia insurgencies take place in jungles where you can only see 50 feet in front of you. Not only that but in combat when you are under fire most likely you will not be able to deliver accurate fire so it doesn't matter how accurate your rifle is in that situation. You need to have a light rifle that can deliver accurate fire within the realistic range in which you will engage the enemy which in most cases is less than 350 meters.

    I personally would rather own an M-14 than an AR but overall the AR platform is better for modern warfare however the M-14 makes an excellent DMR.
     
  4. Pathfinder

    Pathfinder Lieutenant Colonel

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  5. Technofox

    Technofox That Norwegian girl Staff Member Ret. Military Developer

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    Over the M-4, which the Marine Corp is transitioning too over the M-16, heck yes!!!

    This is a major upgrade:
    [​IMG]

    Over this:
    [​IMG]

    But what's the cost difference now?

    I'd love to see the M14EBR equip the US military because, well, it's awesome! But is it economically viable with thousands of M4s in storage?

    I really do have a soft spot for the M14 series though. Sven's got an M21 left over from his Navy service.
    [​IMG]

    But given the cost, performance and weight of the M14, and the reasons the M16 was built and put into service, I can't say it was the right decision. At the time the M16 was the best solution, but now? With the US seeing more combat at long distances like in Afghanistan, or urban areas like in Iraq or fighting enemies with better protective gear, maybe it's time for the M14 to make a comeback.

    It wasn't wrong to replace them at the time, but the M4/16 seems to be the wrong tool now. The M14 just does its role better than the M4/16 can. I'd love to see it make a comeback.

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Osmanovic

    Osmanovic 1st Lieutenant

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    If I was a soldier serving in Vietnam I would have rather had the M-14 over the M-16. In the long term switching over to the M-4 was good.

    An unmentioned advantage of the M-14 is that there could be a less variety of ammunition in the military. Vehicles and infantry could share the 7.62.
     
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  7. Technofox

    Technofox That Norwegian girl Staff Member Ret. Military Developer

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    Interesting point, would this mean doing away with the 5.56 M249 in favor of the MK 48?

    [​IMG]

    This in an good point though @Pathfinder not only might it be time for a return of the M14, but we are also seeing the Army in Afghanistan using the heavier 7.62 MK 48 machinegun because of the drawbacks of the smaller 5.56 round.

    [​IMG]

    Should we be asking if it's time to transition to the 7.62 instead?
     
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  8. Cossack25A1

    Cossack25A1 1st Lieutenant

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    We still use the M14 despite that the PH Army and Marines are using M16 and recently, the Remington R4 as the standard-issue service rifle.

    This picture was from the 2013 Zamboanga Siege.

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Pathfinder

    Pathfinder Lieutenant Colonel

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    I think its the right time to be asking that question, 7.62 is the way to go for reasons stated above by various people in this thread. With modern stock designs 7.62's can actually be relatively light.
    Can penetrate through concrete and thick jungle.
     
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  10. T-123456

    T-123456 Captain Staff Member International Mod

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    The MPT 76 is developed for the Turkish Armed Forces,600 000 ordered.

    upload_2016-3-9_2-16-8.png
    The Barrel life is disappointing though.
     
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